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Newbie Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

I for one thing the eLicense garbage is HORRIBLE!!! It is a TOTAL PITA!

I have been a REGISTERED user of zMud since version 3. Now every 90 days I have to get a new license? B.S.

Now, I get a zMud popup box telling me the new version is available... you'd think I would have learned by now, but STUPID me...I click upgrade. After downloading, download and install crashing, rebooting, and finally trying to get in, I get to have eLicense inform me that all of my licenses are in use. I come to the zMud forums...and THEN I find out I have to delete my old license and to do it through control panel...BEFORE upgrading. Well, I transferred zMud to this comp from another, and don't HAVE eLicense in my Control Panel.

So now I have to sit here waiting for eLicense to get back to me so I can get it licensed.

Meanwhile, those people who just steal a cracked zMud, don't have to put up with any of this hassle. If zMud wasn't the best MUD client I would definately tell Zugg where he could stick it for putting eLicense in. It is the one thing that would make me walk away from zMud in a heartbeat if there was ANYTHING even close available.

Well, that's my rant, and that is all it is. I just had to post it in response to certain others commenting that no one seems to complain about it.

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:37 am

A while back I had 3 licences running...3 versions on one comp, to do with beta testing. Windows crashed, I formatted, reinstalled...couldn't licence zmud.

So, I emailed zugg and in the meantime just played under the 30 day trial. Within a few days time Zugg replied to me saying that it was all fixed, he'd gotten rid of one of those licences, and all was sweet.

Thats good service - and you know what? I didnt have to make a cretin of myself by ranting, raving and screaming on this forum. I didnt have to wait 90 days for it to tick over. Now, I'm careful about how many licenses I have running - I make sure I have at least 1 unused, just in case windows crashes again.

And the new license each 3 months? Bleh...each 3 months I click "get license" and its all done. Difficult stuff huh?

Caled

Newbie Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

I keep a free license also. That's a large part of why I am mad about this. I have one on my PC, one on my laptop, and that's it. So there should have been room for an additional even with the screwup.

I am a strong supporter of shareware programmers. When I need software to do something, I always look for a shareware source first and I ALWAYS pay for it. Of all of the shareware programs I have paid for and run, at home or on the rather large office network I am in charge of, zMud is the ONLY one that makes me, a loyal supporter, jump through hoops to legally use it. In fact, out of all of the software, even from Microsoft, Corel, AutoDesk, etc... it is only zMud that causes me licensing problems. This is the third time that I have had licensing problems with this software. The first Zugg fixed for me. The second eLicense fixed. Now, undoubtably this one will get fixed... but why put the people that have supported you and paid you through this hassle?

I know of at least 15 people who happily downloaded zMud, hacked it, and now run it totally free. They tease me for being a stooge in paying for something I could cheat and have for free, and I always fire back that at least I am maintining my honor and supporting a system that has brought me, in actual hours used, literally years of enjoyment.

If the eLicense was stopping, or really even slowing down, piracy of Zugg's software, I would grudginly support it. But, in fact, as far as I can tell it only does two things. Causes problems, whether minor or major, for the people actually willing to send money in...and since I'm sure it's not free, leeach away some of the money that is sent in to a third party, rather than it going into Zugg's pocket.

If I thought eLicense was a worth while company, with a useful product, I would send them money directly... but to have it leeched from my payment to someone I really want to support bothers me.

And as I stated in my first email...the main reason for the post was from others posting that no one seems to complain about it. And I realized that person was right... and in the immortal words of Edmund Burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

So I am willing to raise my voice against the evil that is eLicense. Does it mean I think this problem wont get fixed? No. Does it mean that I will stop using the single most used program in my house over the last 7 years in a hissy fit? No. Does it mean that I have to like being treated like a criminal every 90 days, when even morons can be real criminals and NOT get bothered like I am? Once again, no.

Wizard Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 1551 Location: Australia

When 6.40 is cracked, maybe you would have a point. But now it's your turn to laugh at your fifteen friends and tell them how much 6.40 rocks compared to the cracked version of 6.16 that they have to use.

Besides, don't you remember those old days where Zugg was writing his own copy protection and all the problems we were having to put up with... eLisence is a whole lot smoother running than that.

Perhaps there should have been a warning in the installer program saying unlisence 6.16 before you install 6.40 .. or perhaps there was one but we just clicked 'next' without reading.

Doesn't matter really, me and the 1680 other people who have downloaded 6.40 in the last couple of days are happily mudding, so less than 0.1% are having troubles with the new system. No problem, use the 30 day trial until your email has been answered by elisence in a day or so.

-- Rainchild

MASTER Joined: 28 Nov 2000 Posts: 4817 Location: USA

A registered user since version 3? Yes, I would think you'd have learned how to do an upgrade by now. I'm not sure that the install process included a reference to the migration guide, but I think it did. The reason I'm not certain is that I knew enough to start by reading that page, and I've only been through two previous upgrades.

Yes, eLicense is a hassle (a very minor one). So is a requirement to have a particular disk in drive A. So is having to look up a password that's hidden in the instruction manual and changes every time you start the program. In fact, every copy protection scheme I've ever seen is a hassle. Unfortunately, the thieves won't go away and since the programmers are in business to make money, the cleverer the thieves get the more annoying the copy-protection has to become. Your "friends" are the cause of your complaint, not Zugg.

LightBulb
Senior Member

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

You know, what really bothers me is that everytime someone makes a post complaining about eLicense, they can't seem to do it in a civil manner with at least the tiniest bit of logical thinking. You say that this is the third time eLicense gives you problems. That's all right, I have seen similar posts from people that are having their first problem ever with eLicense. That is pathetic. Even still, that is not reason enough for this kind of attitude.

I've been through various problems with eLicense myself, but do you see me come here and start a rant everytime? No. The last problem I had with eLicense was that it wouldn't let me have more than two users logged at the same time in WinXP and use zMUD. You know what I did? I calmly stated the problem (as at least one other person) did, and the problem was resolved promptly.

Tell me, what do you think is the most effective way to get what you want: get mad and start crying out loud or use words, explain what you want and why? I don't know about you, but the former seems like the behavior I have seen from people complaining about eLicense, and you know what else it reminds me of? A baby crying to get something.

You ask yourself why people that complain about eLicense are turned down so quickly? It is not because everyone else in here is a mindless zombie that blindly supports eLicense, it is because of the way the posts are made.

Of course it would have been nice to know about having to unlicense before upgradin to 6.40. I would have liked to know about it too. Because of that, I lost the last available license too. Did it ticked me off? Sure, like it would everyone else. Did I came here and started ranting? No, I even made a post to warn everyone else. If I had the ability to post a warning in the AutoUpgrade window, I would have too. Since the other license is for my computer at college, and classes just finished a few days ago, I have no problem with the license I lost since it will be recovered by the time I get back. However, had I really needed the license, I would have calmy e-mailed eLicense about it and I'm sure they would have restored it. If for some reason I did not get a reply, I try again, because I know I am not dealing with a perfect being. I am dealing with a person, the same people that made eLicense, the same people that make mistakes like everybody else does.

My last point would have to be about the absurdity of being bothered by having to click two buttons every 90 days. If this really does bother you, then you are just plain lazy. I don't know why you play MUDs at all then with all of the typing and reading involved. But hey, if you don't like it so much, I'm sure we could get your license to never expire. That way, you would never have to make the two clicks every 90 days, but at the same time, whenever you lost a license, it would never come back. Seems to me like the benefits far outweight the hassle, don't you think? Anyway, that's just me, I have come not to expect everyone to have the least level of logical thinking to understand even something as simple as this.

Finally, I am growing tired of these kind of posts. For a lot of time now, I have always replied to these people. I have tried to make them see how their attitude accomplishes nothing but to elicit more ill-tempered replies. Since I am moderator of this forum, after all, I will simply start locking posts that do not get their point accross in a civil manner. If they push me too hard, I'll delete them too. So, consider this the last rant on eLicense. Any other eLicense problem (or with anything else for that matter) will have to be brought up calmly and rationaly or not be brought up at all.

Kjata

Apprentice Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 114 Location: USA

You know Kjata, that sounds alot like a power trip. Not to bash on you, as you have all been doing on me. The purpose of my original post in the other thread was not to bash on anything other than a product which hinders those users who do pay for zmud. What product is that, elicense. I have a valid order id, and i still get problems caused quite frequently, which I know the solution to well enough because ive read the elicense faq so many times its bothersome, and ive emailed them just as much. I think it would really scare you all if you knew how many of elicense's contracts bit the dust because of so many complaints from customers, I have done the research, its why I suggested zugg finds a different protection, if I have to, i guess I will take your advice and right a new registration method for him, doesnt matter, what does matter is that the terror of elicense and causing problems for mudders all over the world be stopped. Not every mudder that has a problem with elicense can post here, because they dont realize these forums exist. What do you say to those who dont get their problem resolved?
(Do not take this as a rant, i was as calm as could be, and hope that is how this is interpreted)

+------------------+
|Demone YoungBlood|
+------------------+

Novice Joined: 22 Nov 2000 Posts: 40 Location: USA

"You ask yourself why people that complain about eLicense are turned down so quickly? It is not because everyone else in here is a mindless zombie that blindly supports eLicense, it is because of the way the posts are made."

Perhaps the way the posts are made is a symptom of a greater problem? One that hasn't been brought to public attention yet because most folks who encounter the kind of non-responsiveness I've encountered just get frustrated, leave, and don't bother to vent? ( No, Chiara, I don't have copies of the emails I sent, sorry ) I've been a registered user since 1996, long before eLicense ever entered the picture. As I recall, even before Zugg instituted the copy protection. I paid for it because I liked it and wanted to support him for it. The first protection method he used worked fine and I never had a problem getting Zmud to work after reinstalling it. The entire point being made here and in the "other" thread is that eLicense is making things MORE of a pain than it should. I'm all for protecting the product. I just wish it was being done with something that's far less bothersome. This whole mess is largely to blame for why I've been shopping around for other clients, which I won't plug here out of courtesy even though a couple are, dare I say, far superior in quality.

GURU Joined: 24 Sep 2000 Posts: 1237 Location: USA

You make this so fun for me.

quote:

You know Kjata, that sounds alot like a power trip

When you have as many constructive posts on this board as Kjata, your opinion might mean something. It's already been demonstrated to be moronic babble. I just like that you come back for more.

quote:

The purpose of my original post in the other thread was not to bash on anything other than a product which hinders those users who do pay for zmud.

Oh, and coincidentally, those who don't want to pay for it, which you discovered, by trying the old crack yourself.

quote:

I have a valid order id, and i still get problems caused quite frequently, which I know the solution to well enough because ive read the elicense faq so many times its bothersome, and ive emailed them just as much.

Put your money where your mouth is. Show the email history (sent and received) from elicense support and from zuggsoft support. Don't include the contents, as to do that you'd have to include your original order information and you're better off keeping that private. But I want to see the unanswered emails. If you put up your list, I'm sure we can get zuggsoft and elicense to confirm the receipt and reply to each email.

quote:

I think it would really scare you all if you knew how many of elicense's contracts bit the dust because of so many complaints from customers, I have done the research

Back it up. Show us the research - the projects that have used elicense and given it up. I'd like that research in verifiable form, please, so I can check the sources. Prove it to me and you'll win me over as an ardent supporter. Hell, I'll compensate you the $25 you paid for your zMUD license so you'll be done having something to complain about. But you have to prove it.

quote:

if I have to, i guess I will take your advice and right a new registration method for him

Doo yoo code as gud as yoo right? That wil b an amayzing sistem. i kant weight to uz it. I bet it well beet elicense hanz don.

quote:

what does matter is that the terror of elicense and causing problems for mudders all over the world be stopped

You valiant freedom fighter, you. Those, poor, terrorized mudders! Free them! Fight for their ease of use! I can't believe elicense wasn't listed as a member of the Axis of Evil.

quote:

Not every mudder that has a problem with elicense can post here, because they dont realize these forums exist.

Erm, these forums have existed for almost 8 years. I should know, I started them. Furthermore, they've been mentioned in the zMUD help files for many versions. FURTHERmore, they've been mentioned on this web site for many versions. FURTHERmore, any search on any search engine for zMUD support will turn up the Zuggsoft site, where they've been prominently in the navigation since ever. How come every time you open your mouth (figuratively speaking) complete stupidity falls out? I'm not really complaining, I think it's funny as hell, but PLEASE. Do something about that. It's embarrassing to the rest of us.

quote:

What do you say to those who dont get their problem resolved?

Email tech support at elicense. Email tech support at zuggsoft. CC one when you email the other. Email early, email often. Problems do not go ignored, unresolved or unheard of by Elicense or Zuggsoft unless users fail to email. Or fail to think, as the case may be.

Do not take this as an answer to a rant. It was a calm (somewhat enjoyable) rebuttal to poorly made, insufficiently supported, repetitive, under-developed, and oh yes: stupid claims.

zMUD 6 Online Help: All the power you'll ever need.

Novice Joined: 22 Nov 2000 Posts: 40 Location: USA

One other point to make - Why is it the standard reply to people who do post here with error codes and the like is to contact eLicsense? I'm assuming those who are registering these days still have to pay Zuggsoft for the product don't they? Generally accepted that you assume responsibility for your product and not hand it off to another company..... otherwise why don't we just start giving eLicense the $25.

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2000 Posts: 90 Location: Sweden

*agree Darker*
'nuff said.

"May the Force be with you"
[url]peeweesweden@bredband.net[/url]

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 6:35 am

quote:

One other point to make - Why is it the standard reply to people who do post here with error codes and the like is to contact eLicsense? I'm assuming those who are registering these days still have to pay Zuggsoft for the product don't they? Generally accepted that you assume responsibility for your product and not hand it off to another company..... otherwise why don't we just start giving eLicense the $25.

It is the standard when using 3rd party components to direct the client to the 3rd party, should it be out of your scope.

Indeed, the internals of eLicense are out of Zugg's scope, as they are not his product.

So there is your answer.

Icechild

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:30 am

Elicense have many employees, Zugg has a huge range of two employees, himself and Chiara :P Since its christmas, and rumours have it that theyre married, send elicense hassles to elicense over the holidays if you want fastER responses. But like zugg said in a different thread, all customers are getting a license restored automatically to counter problems like this (now is when we all make a collective OOOO...)

Why oh WHY did I have pass door on...

Novice Joined: 22 Nov 2000 Posts: 40 Location: USA

Married, Christmas... gotcha. Would be perfectly understandable had the complaints I'm referring to been filed in the last 2 days. But they weren't. Which seems to be escaping notice for some reason. No, my complaints about eLicense go back for months. I just appear to be the only person with the balls enough to speak up about it aside from Demone. Which naturally means nothing will come of it, so.... yeah.

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 10:32 am

since there is nothing bad that could happen to you for "speaking up about it" on a forum designed for people to speak up about it, I doubt the size of people's balls has anything to do with the price of tea in china, as the saying goes.

Caled

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

It's now four days later since all of this started and still I have not seen one, just one of you, stating what exactly is the problem? One starts to wonder...

Oh, and by the way, call it a power trip if you want, I don't care, I'm doing it anyway. Just think about this for a minute: if someone comes yelling and screaming at you for some reason or another, what do you do? You just tune them out until they calm down. Well, in these forums, it just so happens that I can.

Kjata

Beginner Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 11

just my .02...no rant... no rave. I'm just dissapointed when I can't get something to function correctly. Since eLicense came into the scene is has been a pain for me. I've only had one problem I couldn't figure out by myself regarding zmud and that was with the MDAC and some other screwy things related to it. I got great support from zugg himself. However from time to time the elicense monster bears it's ugly head and gives me a hard time. It's been pretty easy to deal with until now... Now it gives me an error I don't quite grasp and am waiting to hear back from zugg or who ever answers the bug reports. I realize after reading here he may not be able to support it directly and I will continue to try and figure it out tomorrow. errr today. 6:13am... ya today... later.

:?) Anyway, folks shouldn't rant, others trying to stand up for a product shouldn't stoop to the level of those who go off the handle. Live how you want, but things get done a lot faster and look a lot more professional without all the extra bs.

eLicense is a necessary evil at this point... I wish it was something that could be removed, but I don't have any useful suggestions on what to replace it with other than a big stick that beats someone when they pirate a rather useful program.

Newbie Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

Kjata and all,

My problem has been fixed, as I said I knew it would be in a previous post.

As to your assertion,

quote:
"still I have not seen one, just one of you, stating what exactly is the problem?"

Is has been stated a total of 8 times in this thread alone.

quote:
Krador - "I get a zMud popup box telling me the new version is available... you'd think I would have learned by now, but STUPID me...I click upgrade. After downloading, download and install crashing, rebooting, and finally trying to get in, I get to have eLicense inform me that all of my licenses are in use."

quote:
Caled - "A while back I had 3 licences running...3 versions on one comp, to do with beta testing. Windows crashed, I formatted, reinstalled...couldn't licence zmud.", "each 3 months I click "get license" and its all done."

quote:
Krador - "This is the third time that I have had licensing problems with this software. The first Zugg fixed for me. The second eLicense fixed. Now, undoubtably this one will get fixed... but why put the people that have supported you and paid you through this hassle?", "So I am willing to raise my voice against the evil that is eLicense. Does it mean I think this problem wont get fixed? No. Does it mean that I will stop using the single most used program in my house over the last 7 years in a hissy fit? No. Does it mean that I have to like being treated like a criminal every 90 days, when even morons can be real criminals and NOT get bothered like I am? Once again, no."

quote:
Rainchild - "Perhaps there should have been a warning in the installer program saying unlisence 6.16 before you install 6.40 .. or perhaps there was one but we just clicked 'next' without reading."

quote:
Lightbulb - "Yes, eLicense is a hassle (a very minor one). So is a requirement to have a particular disk in drive A. So is having to look up a password that's hidden in the instruction manual and changes every time you start the program. In fact, every copy protection scheme I've ever seen is a hassle."

quote:
Kjata - "You say that this is the third time eLicense gives you problems. That's all right, I have seen similar posts from people that are having their first problem ever with eLicense.", "I've been through various problems with eLicense myself,", "Of course it would have been nice to know about having to unlicense before upgradin to 6.40. I would have liked to know about it too. Because of that, I lost the last available license too."

quote:
demonyoungblood - "The purpose of my original post in the other thread was not to bash on anything other than a product which hinders those users who do pay for zmud. What product is that, elicense. I have a valid order id, and i still get problems caused quite frequently, which I know the solution to well enough because ive read the elicense faq so many times its bothersome, and ive emailed them just as much."

quote:
Samson - "Perhaps the way the posts are made is a symptom of a greater problem? One that hasn't been brought to public attention yet because most folks who encounter the kind of non-responsiveness I've encountered just get frustrated, leave, and don't bother to vent?", "The entire point being made here and in the "other" thread is that eLicense is making things MORE of a pain than it should. I'm all for protecting the product. I just wish it was being done with something that's far less bothersome."

Yes Darker, I can use quotes too.

The trouble, as has been REPEATEDLY stated, is NOT that the problems go unresolved... with the possibe exception of Sampson's. The trouble is that the problems are happening in the first place and that it is only legitimate users that eLicense annoys. Protection schemes in general are supposed to stop piracy while intruding on legititmate users as little as possible. Does eLicense accomplish either of these goals? No. Piracy of Zugg's products is rampant and easy despite eLicense, and as evidenced on this forum, there are a significant enough portion of legitimate users being inconvenienced enough to post complaints that it is obviously a problem, whether the Board staff chooses to recognize the fact or not. This entire thread is not I have X problem with the product, and cannot be resolved by anyone looking at a table of canned answers and replying put Tab A in Slot B. It is about the fundamental philosophical idea of having an intrusive and ineffective form of copy protection in a piece of software that we all obviously use and care deeply about. Standard knee-jerk reactions of "Contact tech support (whether eLicense or Zugg), and "if you're not willing to put up with the hassles then your a bad person" are not at all helpful or to the point. Kjata, I realize that there isn't anything you personnally can do to fix this problem, it is a key decision on Zugg's part, and I realize it must frustrate you terribly to not be able help solve it.

Newbie Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

On a second note... Kjata and Darker... You do realize that in your capacites on this board you constitute the major point of first contact for customer support of zMud?

I find the personal attacks coming from Board staff in this thread appalling.

quote:
Kjata - "If this really does bother you, then you are just plain lazy. I don't know why you play MUDs at all then with all of the typing and reading involved", "It's now four days later since all of this started and still I have not seen one, just one of you, stating what exactly is the problem? One starts to wonder..."

quote:
Darker - "When you have as many constructive posts on this board as Kjata, your opinion might mean something. It's already been demonstrated to be moronic babble. I just like that you come back for more", "Doo yoo code as gud as yoo right? That wil b an amayzing sistem. i kant weight to uz it. I bet it well beet elicense hanz don", "You valiant freedom fighter, you. Those, poor, terrorized mudders! Free them! Fight for their ease of use! I can't believe elicense wasn't listed as a member of the Axis of Evil", "How come every time you open your mouth (figuratively speaking) complete stupidity falls out? I'm not really complaining, I think it's funny as hell, but PLEASE. Do something about that. It's embarrassing to the rest of us", "It was a calm (somewhat enjoyable) rebuttal to poorly made, insufficiently supported, repetitive, under-developed, and oh yes: stupid claims."

I realize that you both are volunteers and get no pay for the work you do here. However, as an established businessman and licensed professional, if I found anyone representing my company in this manner, I would disassociate myself from them immediately.

Yes, in my original post and in other's posts following, there were complaints and even rants against eLicense. No one is complaining about zMud itself, or making inappropriate and abusive personal comments on the staffs of Zuggsoft, eLicense, or this Board. I find the immediate response of the staff here to be degradation and abuse of the paying customers...

When I pay for a product or service I expect it to satisfy me. If it turns out to be more trouble than it is worth, then I get rid of it and find something else. When it is useful but there are things about it I don't like I go to the approriate place and complain to get the problem fixed. I'm sorry I mistook this forum as that place.

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 3:35 pm

quote:

Krador - When I pay for a product or service I expect it to satisfy me. If it turns out to be more trouble than it is worth, then I get rid of it and find something else. When it is useful but there are things about it I don't like I go to the approriate place and complain to get the problem fixed. I'm sorry I mistook this forum as that place.

For me, the active word here is "complain", as soon as support ANYONE gets a whiff of this you're dismissed as a whiner and get treated as such, intentional or not. As a business man yourself, you have to admit you do the same to your own clients, wether they have valid points or not. Its all in the delivery.
First contact with staff is also their first contact with you, it goes both ways in all walks of life. Being a paying customer doesnt give anyone the right to whinge and piss and moan until they get things resolved (it just doesnt happen), if you want anything anywhere resolved you have to be polite, clear and consise. Compare the posts here that rant/complain/moan against the ones that were polite and detailed - which problems got resolved, and how quickly?
But you already knew this, you're a business man :)

Why oh WHY did I have pass door on...

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

Ok, let's move on with life... no one is switching view points here so there is nothing more to do. I hope that this has been helpful to everyone involved in one way or another. At least it was for me.

Kjata

GURU Joined: 24 Sep 2000 Posts: 1237 Location: USA

Woo Krador! I'm glad you got the issue fixed, and I'm glad you took me to task on the way I respond(ed). And I'm serious about that.

I would've left this post alone except that someone else replied to complain about it from the point of view of someone only trying to crack the protection. I've got absolutely no issue with your post, your posting here to get support (or even just rant) or your difference of opinion from my own or anyone else's about the elicense software. I don't rabidly support elicense (I've had my own hiccups with it) - I rabidly support Zuggsoft. I didn't reply to your post or intentionally quote anything you said.

I didn't claim you had no specific problem - I see where you explained what's wrong, and I see where someone else said inspecific. I do think that given the mix of posters complaining (and their other threads with more detail) it's easy for someone to confuse their history with your post, but since I'm so fond of quoting (I like that you lampooned me, Hehe), I don't think I missed the mark on this and accused you of anything 'inspecific'.

quote:

The trouble is that the problems are happening in the first place and that it is only legitimate users that eLicense annoys. Protection schemes in general are supposed to stop piracy while intruding on legititmate users as little as possible. Does eLicense accomplish either of these goals? No.

We've seen claims from at least some aspiring thieves here that it annoys them, too - so while I don't dismiss your point about it being a thorn in the side of some legit users, it does also accomplish its goal better than any previous copyright-protection system Zuggsoft has used or evaluated.

Legit users are of course welcome to full support from Zuggsoft and eLicense and as you've experienced, it may not be instantaneous, but it does get completed. I haven't yet seen anyone post documentation on a problem that hasn't been resolved.

Personally, I view elicense as a necessary evil. Zugg tested many alternatives before settling on it. As you test alternatives that prove worse, you come to be "relatively" satisfied with your final choice. That's not to say even he is entirely happy with it. But from a field of options each with their own undesirable quirks, it was the best when it was chosen. Frankly, I don't know if anything new is available or better now. I have a feeling they'd work similarly.

The 90 days thing was actually a Zuggsoft idea implemented by eLicense. Not too many people are aware of that. We initially had complaints of people who have systems that need to be re-installed frequently (software developers, tinkerers, people with bad karma, etc). They couldn't unlicense their zMUDs after reinstalling, so Zugg talked elicense into providing 3 licenses per registration that automatically expire 90 days after they're installed, so that lost licenses would re-surface, and nobody was entirely out of luck when 1 of the 3 disappeared for a while. I think the minor inconvenience of having to click twice every 3 months to use zMUD is perfectly acceptable, versus having to prove you registered and wait for them to unlicense one whenever something unfortunate happens to your computer (Or Fortunate, given how windows performance tends to degrade since installation).

Pardon this quote, I know I'm taking 2 separate sentences out of context...

quote:

table of canned answers
Standard knee-jerk reactions of "Contact tech support (whether eLicense or Zugg)
"if you're not willing to put up with the hassles then your a bad person"

The canned answers are solutions to the most common problems sent to Zuggsoft via email. Not all users are as computer-literate as others, so when a commonly used answer is "perfected" in terms of description and methodology, it gets re-used a lot. Some users, more advanced than others, will naturally have already thought to try the things they get told. We're happy to have intelligent users. But we also have to cater to those less technically inclined.

The knee-jerk reaction about emailing support is simply because users frequently have to provide their registration details in a request for help, and that's not something we want on the public forums - for their own protection. It's not that experienced users here couldn't solve the problems - it's that we don't want the implication that we're after anyone's reg details.

The bad person thing is over-used, I think. But typically it doesn't come out until someone's complained of a non-specific problem or behavior that is typically only seen when trying to bypass the licensing. It certainly does not apply to everyone - but you'd laugh at some of the transparent complaints and requests for help from users who think we won't know what they're after when they ask "Can't I use zMUD without eLicense? It.. um.. sucks! Yeah, that's it. It sucks and makes zMUD unusable. I paid but I refuse to email for tech support - maybe someone anonymous can publicly give me the answer I need". I don't like to cite the bad person refrain, but sometimes it applies. I enjoy quoting them, disproving them, and then publicly labeling a moron. It elicits howls of laughter. My own, if nobody else's. Heh.

quote:

On a second note... Kjata and Darker... You do realize that in your capacites on this board you constitute the major point of first contact for customer support of zMud?

Yes, I do. I'm sure Kjata does too - look how many posts he's made. More than me, and I *started* these forums. I prefer to be helpful than to be sarcastic, malicious and demeaning. I'm sure you'll find that on balance the vast majority of my posts are fixes to broken scripts, solutions to problems, etc. It's unfortunate that someone might see my rare tyrade against a thief and form an opinion about me, but I stand behind what I write here. If they should ask a different question, they'll find I love solving problems and helping other users.

quote:

I find the personal attacks coming from Board staff in this thread appalling.

As appalling as say, someone trying to get help stealing software from the software's own tech support forum? That's what bugs me - to the point of being cruel sometimes, and I ought not do that. However, I can't stand by and let someone deceitfully attack software I support and an author I count as a friend, when I could disprove their every comment.

quote:
Kjata - "If this really does bother you, then you are just plain lazy. I don't know why you play MUDs at all then with all of the typing and reading involved", "It's now four days later since all of this started and still I have not seen one, just one of you, stating what exactly is the problem? One starts to wonder..."

quote:
Darker - "When you have as many constructive posts on this board as Kjata, your opinion might mean something. It's already been demonstrated to be moronic babble. I just like that you come back for more", "Doo yoo code as gud as yoo right? That wil b an amayzing sistem. i kant weight to uz it. I bet it well beet elicense hanz don", "You valiant freedom fighter, you. Those, poor, terrorized mudders! Free them! Fight for their ease of use! I can't believe elicense wasn't listed as a member of the Axis of Evil", "How come every time you open your mouth (figuratively speaking) complete stupidity falls out? I'm not really complaining, I think it's funny as hell, but PLEASE. Do something about that. It's embarrassing to the rest of us", "It was a calm (somewhat enjoyable) rebuttal to poorly made, insufficiently supported, repetitive, under-developed, and oh yes: stupid claims."

Wow... It's like re-visiting my greatest hits. I entertain myself. Hehe.

quote:

I realize that you both are volunteers and get no pay for the work you do here. However, as an established businessman and licensed professional, if I found anyone representing my company in this manner, I would disassociate myself from them immediately.

Well within your rights to do. But when what I write is obviously written to ridicule someone else, I would hope readers either chuckle or take it with a grain of salt. Or a pound of salt, as needed. I think my other contributions to users and Zugg Software as a supporter outweigh my occassional torent of rebuke of those trying to steal from the company.

As I stated before, I took no issue with your post or opinion. You're complaining in a valid place. The only better step to take would be to email it to Zugg@zuggsoft.com so he's sure to see it (He does not frequently answer posts in this forum, since he relies on other users in large part).

I'm sorry that you took personally my response to others and took it to be a general unwillingness to be helpful and cooperative. It was not intended that way (to you). I'll take this event as a future reminder that I should aim my remarks more specifically, and try to remain simultaneously helpful to others when I do it.

zMUD 6 Online Help: All the power you'll ever need.

SubAdmin Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 5182

Mr Krador,

I am pleased to inform you that as a registered user of zMud for over 6 years you have spent $4 per year or less on this product. I am sure you will see that has provided you with at least 4380 hours of pleasurable entertainement. Considering historical prices of various forms of entertainement an estimated average price per hour, for a comparable pleasure level, can be established at $6. As such, it has come to my attention that you owe Zugg $26280. Will that be cash, check, charge, or body part?

Being a little more serious, your one time registration of $25 is cheap. Everyone here tries to help resolve problems when there is a clear problem to be resolved. None of us are capable of fixing an opinion. You expressed your opinion, and even explained some of the reasoning that lead you to form this opinion. I happen to agree with parts of your reasoning, but find the overall view flawed.

The biggest flaw is your statement:

quote:

If the eLicense was stopping, or really even slowing down, piracy of Zugg's software, I would grudginly support it.

You have no way of measuring eLicenses effect. The goal of any copy protection scheme is to slow piracy. If eLicense makes cracking any software takes 1 minute longer then it has met that goal. Since eLicense does indeed provide a much more complex protection then any Zugg could create, it is assured to take at least another minute for an expert cracker to handle it. So you must, by your own statement, provide it grudging support.

MASTER Joined: 28 Nov 2000 Posts: 4817 Location: USA

I hate to make this thread any longer but Krador quoted me directly as providing a specific complaint about eLicense. Since I didn't, I'm unwilling to just let it pass.

quote:
Lightbulb - "Yes, eLicense is a hassle (a very minor one). So is a requirement to have a particular disk in drive A. So is having to look up a password that's hidden in the instruction manual and changes every time you start the program. In fact, every copy protection scheme I've ever seen is a hassle."

Absolutely no mention of a specific problem. By "hassle (a very minor one)" I meant that I had to look up my registration code before upgrading from 5.55 to 6.15, and then had to look it up once more before upgrading to 6.40. In addition, I've had to do the 90-day relicense (hit a couple buttons) a total of approximately 7 times. All told, that probably took less than 10 minutes over the last two years. It's a VERY minor hassle. Making sure I had the right disk in drive A took more time than that in the first month of ownership for many programs.

LightBulb
Senior Member

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 10:58 pm

Kragor - you took my post before, out of context. I mentioned a problem that occured. The point of mentioning it was to illustrate how quickly and professionally it was solved. How getting it solved took me no more effort than 5 minutes to send zugg an email. How, now that I know how elicense works, it will never ever occur to me again.

Incidentally, last night on Achaea, some guy complained about how much 3.62 sucks. I was intrigued - he wouldn't say that if he wasnt used to comething better. Later it came out he had a cracked version tha tno longer works, even though he didnt try to upgrade.

Heh, he then asked to borrow my license code. I muust look stupid or something

Caled