Zugg Software :: View topic - What more does CMUD 2.0x need for Public status?

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:10 pm

OK, here is what I'm planning for the rest of the week:

1) Fix some of the reported bugs in v2.03 (although there aren't very many critical issues that I've seen)

2) Update the documentation to reflect all of the new stuff (that will take most of the week)

3) Planning to add the zMUD Trigger Wizard system to CMUD.

So, what else is needed to make CMUD 2.0x a Public Version? I think it's getting pretty close. Do others agree?

The only other big thing that I can think of spending time on is getting everything to compile within Delphi 2007 on Vista. This involves updating a bunch of 3rd party components, which gives the advantage of fixing a few misc bugs in various components (mainly the toolbar system). It would also get me to spend more time in Vista to make it easier to deal with weird Vista issues. My guess is that it would probably take an additional week to get everything working within Delphi 2007. And I guess it's better to do this while in BETA testing, rather than trying to do this with a Public version. So maybe this is worth the effort at this time.

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

4) More testing.

Judging by the posts in this forum, I guess that because there are some annoying bugs (even if not critical) in v2.03, many of us haven't tested it as much as we might have. And because it might be considered an early beta many people haven't tested it at all. In particular, these apparently threading related crashes and the scrolling speed slow down look like they might need quite a lot of testing to track down. (And people aren't going to be doing much beta testing if they find a really annoying (for them) bug!)

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:06 pm

I'd have to agree with Seb's statement about it not being fully tested.

The slower scrolling speed means I still use 1.34 when doing critical things. 2.03 also still hangs occasionally requiring the ESC key to be pressed. I wish Cmud would pop up and say "Hey I might be stuck as I haven't displayed a new line in 5 mins."

2.03 is close, oh so close but it just isn't production for me.

When are we going to be able to stop worry about corruption? I thought one of the great things about Cmud was going to be the use SqLite so we didn't have to worry about our work getting corrupted. Instead I find myself having to be far more paranoid with Cmud and backing up work. On a daily basis someone is told to reinstall and/or redo their packages. I find it really hard to recommend Cmud because of this problem.

Apprentice Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 190 Location: Canada

Tragically, I must agree with the above. I've restricted myself to using only one session while I've been running the beta 2.03 version, but still I get irregular behavior at times that I can't always track down, much less report. I had another complete lock-up the other day, but attributed that to having the Package Editor open (which, of course, shouldn't be crashing)... but even aside from that issue, if I leave CMud running for too long sometimes (overnight per-say) my main output window will be completely blank and unresponsive when I return... though apparently I'm still connected and receiving text, it's simply not displaying.

Don't get me wrong, I /LOVE/ the new features of CMud 2.0x... it's just stability issues for me ATM that keep it from being ready for public release.

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:07 pm

Well, this is pretty depressing for me. Because it's up to you guys to help with the testing. Just saying "needs more testing" isn't anything that I can do by myself. I am already testing is as much as I can. We need more beta testers, or we need existing beta testers to use it more seriously.

1) I am not aware of any reported problem with scrolling speed in 2.03. Where is this posted? Did I miss a post about this?

2) The issue with hanging also hasn't been given enough detail for me to figure out. Last I remember I was asking people if it only occurred when the settings editor was open, and I never heard a response to that question.

3) What data corruption are you talking about? I don't see any threads talking about data corruption. I see a thread talking about an issue where settings are not getting saved sometimes, but I'm not seeing anyone saying that they are getting completely corrupted settings or databases.

The reason we tell people to reinstall or redo their packages is because some people are using settings from old beta versions that had corruption bugs. But I'm not aware of any bugs in the later versions that are causing corruption. So once again, please don't propagate "rumors" like that. If there is still a data corruption problem, then please make a post about it.

4) I've run CMUD 2.03 overnight many times here with no problems. So if your main output window is blank and unresponsive, where is the post about this problem? Have you tried disabling triggers before leaving it overnight to see if that helps? Is the settings editor open when you leave it overnight?

I appreciate the help with beta testing, but I'm frustrated that I'm not seeing posts on these problems. Unless I have missed something when I was gone, it seems like it takes a topic like this to get people to post their problems. When you get a problem with the Beta version, don't just ignore it and hope that it will get fixed in another version...POST about it! Provide as much detail as you can. Send me your settings and tell me the steps that you used to get the problem (even if it means letting it run overnight). That's what beta testing is for.

Anyway, I'm stuck in a frustrating position right now. I'm not getting enough beta testers to help find these problems, and yet you guys are telling me that it needs more testing. At some point, I'm going to be forced to call it a public version just to get more people using it. But then CMUD will get an even worse reputation for stability like it did last year. Then again, some people are always going to think it's unstable just from some bad experience with a previous version no matter what improvements I make. And once this kind of reputation spreads, it's really hard to fix.

Maybe we need to get the word out to people that this is no longer an "early" beta version. Based upon the number of items I have on my bug list, it's getting close to a Public version. So try to use it more often and post about the problems you are seeing.

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:27 pm

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:24 pm

We probably should have never used the word "corruption" in the first place.

In zMUD, your settings can get "corrupted". This means the *.MUD file is totally messed up and cannot be read. Trying to load the *.MUD settings will simply crash the program. This is caused because zMUD simply saves a chunk of memory to the *.MUD file, and if that memory was messed up because of an Access Violation error, then it's saving complete garbage to your *.MUD file and overwriting all of your settings.

In CMUD, you never get this kind of corruption. The *.PKG is an SQLite database. You are not going to have it completely overwritten with complete garbage like in the zMUD case. When we talk about "corruption" in CMUD, we usually mean that some script has some incorrect pointer (like it points to a module or class record that doesn't exist), or something like that. The *.PKG file will still load, but some script might not be working properly. This used to be a common problem because the drag/drop and copy/paste in the settings editor had bugs in older versions that would cause this. It shouldn't be happening any more, and in many cases the newer versions of CMUD will automatically fix problems like this.

So this isn't the same kind of horrible "corruption" that zMUD had. In zMUD you could lose everything. In CMUD you might just have problems with some scripts. And now that the XML Import/Export is working, it's easier to export your entire package and then re-import it. So, maybe we shouldn't be using the word "corruption"...it gives people the wrong idea.

In cases where creating a new package fixes the problem, then it would be nice if someone would send me the old package file that had the problem so that I could determine what was wrong with it. And we should all probably stop telling people to just reinstall, even though I am guilty of this myself. It would be better if we could actually narrow down the problem and get it fixed.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:04 am

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:18 am

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:24 am

Well Cmud's response to dependency walker was Evil or Very Mad

Guess that was busted idea.

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

Enchanter Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 605

+ to all posted:

1) Fix Automapper "memLookup: Dataset is not in edit mode." error - the only crash-causing error for me for the last 2 weeks, happening every day. Very Happy

2) As suggested by someone (sorry, I can't remember) add some tool for renumbering settings priorities with step 10 again. Sometimes after editing priority values goes with step 1 and no more room to insert more settings between them. You mention somewhere on drag-drop settings in tree view to change priorities automatically, but looks it not work for me.

Apprentice Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 190 Location: Canada

4) I've run CMUD 2.03 overnight many times here with no problems. So if your main output window is blank and unresponsive, where is the post about this problem? Have you tried disabling triggers before leaving it overnight to see if that helps? Is the settings editor open when you leave it overnight?

I had posted this before in the unconfirmed lockups post. I hadn't made mention of leaving it running overnight, but the issue of the screen being blank while still receiving code is there.

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

Tip: You should put Quote="Zugg" tags around your first paragraph. It makes it less confusing. Wink

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:32 pm

I'd like to get some issues from this thread separated into their own posts so that I can track them and fix them:

Llwethen Your results show a scrolling speed difference even when triggers are disabled. So, this is different than the post from Seb about spaces in triggers causing a slowdown. Could you create a new post with your scrolling speed differences in it so that we can discuss the scrolling speed problem properly.

Seb You stated in your post about the #WINDOW problem that:

Enchanter Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 605

May I ask to add the option "Run CMUD in maximized window"? Rolling Eyes

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:47 pm

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

Enchanter Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 605

Zugg
It is too small feature to have its own topic.

It runs not maximized but with window having size of the whole screen. Occasionally I move it with mouse and only after that have notice that it was not actually maximized.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:44 am

I think reliably saving settings is fairly important; I am using 2.03 but i nearly gave up the fifth time i entered the same (simple) trigger and found it gone the next time i used CMUD

There is definately some sort of problem that CDATA seems associated with.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:10 am

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:34 am

I have another problem in that when CMud does crash, the crash reporter dialogue where you enter your name and email address has the 'cancel' button only. There are two rey panels that look like buttons should go there but they're inactive.

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

eclpmb, that should go in a separate topic along with what version of CMUD and what operating system you are using. And please give details of what causes the crash.